Economics - Revision history

Cholmondely: /* OXPs with a broader economic scope */ Improved another link

2022-01-02T14:11:59Z

‎OXPs with a broader economic scope: Improved another link

Cholmondely: /* OXPs with a broader economic scope */ Better link

2022-01-02T14:07:22Z

‎OXPs with a broader economic scope: Better link

Cholmondely: Added Demand Driven Economy

2022-01-02T10:20:33Z

Added Demand Driven Economy

Cholmondely: /* BB Discussions */ Added another

2021-11-24T01:19:36Z

‎BB Discussions: Added another

Cholmondely: /* BB Discussions */ Added Redspear's defence of Elite/Oolite trade

2021-11-19T14:16:32Z

‎BB Discussions: Added Redspear's defence of Elite/Oolite trade

Cholmondely: /* Ship pricing */ Added another link

2021-11-15T20:42:06Z

‎Ship pricing: Added another link

Cholmondely: /* Other Discussions */ Transclusion of Guide to Economics OXP's

2021-11-14T11:10:06Z

‎Other Discussions: Transclusion of Guide to Economics OXP's

Cholmondely: Added picture!

2021-10-31T19:45:47Z

Added picture!

Cholmondely: /* BB Discussions */ Added another

2021-10-31T19:41:31Z

‎BB Discussions: Added another

Cholmondely: /* BB Discussions */ Added another

2021-10-18T17:17:17Z

‎BB Discussions: Added another

@@ Line 200: / Line 200: @@
 === OXPs with a broader economic scope ===
 *[[Risk Based Economy OXP]] - by [[User:Cim|Cim]]. Makes trade prices depend on government as well as economy (1.77).
-*[[User:Phkb#Experimental_OXP.27s|Risky Business]] - by [[User:Phkb|Phkb]]. As above. See BB discussion and comparison with Cim's above [http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20705 here]. Note that Phkb has been working on combining the two ([https://app.box.com/s/5srbgd1y1i3x7lrhtkfwcwvpdiwecw2i here - 2021]).
+*[[Risky Business]] - by [[User:Phkb|Phkb]]. As above. See BB discussion and comparison with Cim's above [http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20705 here]. Note that Phkb has been working on combining the two ([https://app.box.com/s/5srbgd1y1i3x7lrhtkfwcwvpdiwecw2i here - 2021]).
 <br>
 *[[Demand Driven Economy]] - by [[User:Redspear|Redspear]]. Gives each of the 8 system economies one profitable import, with tweaks for population, economy size &  tech level, thus breaking away from the Computers-Furs profit model.

@@ Line 199: / Line 199: @@
 === OXPs with a broader economic scope ===
-*[[User:Cim#Difficulty_increases|Risk Based Economy]] - by [[User:Cim|Cim]]. Makes trade prices depend on government as well as economy (1.77).
+*[[Risk Based Economy OXP]] - by [[User:Cim|Cim]]. Makes trade prices depend on government as well as economy (1.77).
 *[[User:Phkb#Experimental_OXP.27s|Risky Business]] - by [[User:Phkb|Phkb]]. As above. See BB discussion and comparison with Cim's above [http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20705 here]. Note that Phkb has been working on combining the two ([https://app.box.com/s/5srbgd1y1i3x7lrhtkfwcwvpdiwecw2i here - 2021]).
 <br>

@@ Line 31: / Line 31: @@
 == Critiques of Oolite's economics ==
-=== Cim ===
+=== 1) Cim ===
 * '''Cim''': Let's assume a 1Tc barrel of Food contains 1000kg of food, or approx 500 person-days of food. A Boa will bring 125Tc, and lets say 2 or 3 arrive each day carrying food rather than other goods. So they're only importing enough food to feed a couple of hundred thousand people at most. We can probably pretty safely assume then that the Food cargo is generally luxury food, interstellar delicacies, and the like, and all planets are usually self-sufficient for basic food needs. The NPC bulk haulers (''eg'' [[HammerHead]]) could raise it to a couple of million people, perhaps, which is still negligible.
 :::[http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=161441#p161441 Cim] (2012). ''Note that arguments exist over the definition of a TC: weight or volume?''
@@ Line 38: / Line 38: @@
 :*[[New Cargoes]] - emulates the Classic Elite lore, with trade in specialist items: Vargorn mind-silk & thrumpberry juice. Introduces 100 sub-variants of the regular commodities: mud hockey sticks! zero-gravity hockey sticks! Excellent profits only at one or two planets - but get your hockey variety right! Uses the lore and culture to generate new markets. Subscribe to a trade magazine with tips! Go on the [[New Cargoes Trading Advice|Advanced Trading course]] at your alma mater, the [[Lave Academy]]!
 :*[[Risk Based Economy OXP]] - makes trade in dangerous systems more profitable, trade in safe systems less so. So less money initially.
 *Accepting cim's analysis thus leads to implications for population size. The population will be limited by the food supply. In a high [[TL]] system, there will be equipment allowing production of food on an otherwise barren planet. But in a low TL system...?
 *The impact of a player's action on market prices will of course depend on the size of the market. Oolite markets seem very small, and one would expect player's actions to have a major impact. If the size of contract trade is factored in, the market size grows considerably, reducing this impact. If the  markets on the planet surface are factored in too, then the market size grows immensely, and player's actions become irrelevant.
-=== Stranger ===
+=== 2) Redspear ===
 * '''Stranger''': The [[Vanilla game]] descriptions seem controversial. Why does a Poor Agricultural system market have more food and soft goods at a lower price than a Rich Agricultural? We have no such controversy at the opposite end of the scale: a Rich Industrial market has more electronics and machinery at a lower price than a Poor Industrial market. It seems that "Poor Agriculture" is a logically flawed definition: it reflects the system's economic specialization, not the productivity level, nor the richness/poverty level!
 : ...
@@ Line 54: / Line 53: @@
 :Slave and narcotics (and partly firearms of course) are a special case. This is illegal business, criminal, affected by random events, so quantities and prices for such items will be highly variable.
 :::(Stranger's introduction to [[SW Economy]] - but see also his essay, [http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21094 here])
-=== Phasted ===
+=== 4) Phasted ===
 * '''Phasted''' does a similar thing to Stranger, but rather than introduce a tri-polar model and three new essential commodities, he focuses on the Vanilla game's bipolar model and makes it work more realistically.
 :*Proximity of neighbouring systems now affects prices as well as piracy! So one single industrial economy surrounded by a sea of agriculturals will have prices more similar to theirs.
@@ Line 62: / Line 63: @@
 :*Markets may now stock 800TC or more of a commodity!
 :Economies are given a comparative rating on the [[F7 page (data on "system")]] showing how the neighbourhood affects the local economy. The new rating is on the scale between poor agricultural (Agri 4) and rich industrial (Ind 4).
-=== A fifth radical OXP ===
+=== A sixth radical OXP ===
-You will see that there are two approaches. Cim looks at the game code and tries to explain the game model in an economic fashion (trade is mostly irrelevant - most planets fend for themselves (economic autarky) trading maybe just a few luxury goods. The trade which goes on may be too small to really matter. Stranger & Phasted take another approach, looking at the way economics works and tweaking the game to fit.
+You will see that there are three approaches. Cim looks at the game code and tries to explain the game model in an economic fashion (trade is mostly irrelevant - most planets fend for themselves (economic autarky) trading maybe just a few luxury goods. The trade which goes on may be too small to really matter. Redspear is concerned with playability, and wishes to make more commodities reliably profitable. Stranger & Phasted take another approach, looking at the way economics works and tweaking the game to fit.
-These three authors thus wrote OXPs which enhance the economics of Oolite in quite different ways. There is a fifth OXP which works along lines similar to Cim's, Risky Business by [[User:Phkb|Phkb]], who sadly offers us no learned disquisition on economics! Risky Business aims to make Multi-Gov, Feudal and Anarchy systems more rewarding for traders, by tweaking prices on a ''few'' goods. Goods that are already over the average could be increased. Goods that are below the average could be reduced. Not all goods will be impacted at all locations. Phkb's newest version combines his and Cim's and allows you to choose between one, the other or both (you need [[Library]].oxp to do so).
+These three authors thus wrote OXPs which enhance the economics of Oolite in quite different ways. There is a sixth OXP which works along lines similar to Cim's, [[Risky Business]] by [[User:Phkb|Phkb]], who sadly offers us no learned disquisition on economics! Risky Business aims to make Multi-Gov, Feudal and Anarchy systems more rewarding for traders, by tweaking prices on a ''few'' goods. Goods that are already over the average could be increased. Goods that are below the average could be reduced. Not all goods will be impacted at all locations. Phkb's newest version includes Cim's Risk Based Economy and allows you to choose between one, the other or both (you will need [[Library]].oxp to do so).
 === Notes ===
 [https://archive.org/details/oeconomica01arisuoft/page/n7/mode/2up?ref=ol&view=theater Economics] was a book written by Aristotle in Classical Greece. He started analysing household accounts (Oikos Nomos - laws of the household) and moved on to look at the accounts of a Greek city state. Hence the term.
-Note that of these 5 OXP's only New Cargoes & Stranger's SW Economy are available through the in-game [[Expansions Manager]].
+Note that of these 6 OXP's only New Cargoes, Demand Driven Economy & Stranger's SW Economy are available through the in-game [[Expansions Manager]].
 == Taxation ==
@@ Line 193: / Line 196: @@
 *[[User:Cim#Difficulty_increases|Risk Based Economy]] - by [[User:Cim|Cim]]. Makes trade prices depend on government as well as economy (1.77).
 *[[User:Phkb#Experimental_OXP.27s|Risky Business]] - by [[User:Phkb|Phkb]]. As above. See BB discussion and comparison with Cim's above [http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20705 here]. Note that Phkb has been working on combining the two ([https://app.box.com/s/5srbgd1y1i3x7lrhtkfwcwvpdiwecw2i here - 2021]).
 <br>
 *[[SW Economy]] - by [[User:Stranger|Stranger]] (2012-21). Introduces trade in medicine, water & oxygen. Totally alters trade & prices to bring in some realism. Planet size & economy size are now also relevant to a planet's production, affecting quantities on offer. Attempts to introduce a 3-polar economy (agricultural / mining / industrial).

@@ Line 226: / Line 226: @@
 *[http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21094 Strangers Roolite Essay on Economics & the Oolite trade model] (2014, posted 2021)
 *[http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=161534#p161534 Speculation] on the economics of Biodomes/Orbital stations
-* [http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3073 BB Thread] comparing '''[[Sector1/Maesin|Maesin]]''' (Poor Agricultural Anarchy, TL: 1, 0.8 Billion Small Harmless Furry Rodents with a Productivity of 768 M₢) with '''[[Sector1/Ceesxe|Ceesxe]]''' (Rich Industrial Corporate, TL: 15, 6.4 Billion Fierce Bony Birds with a Productivity of 56,320 M₢): population 8x as big but GNP only 73x bigger! (2007-18)
+*[http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3073 BB Thread] comparing '''[[Sector1/Maesin|Maesin]]''' (Poor Agricultural Anarchy, TL: 1, 0.8 Billion Small Harmless Furry Rodents with a Productivity of 768 M₢) with '''[[Sector1/Ceesxe|Ceesxe]]''' (Rich Industrial Corporate, TL: 15, 6.4 Billion Fierce Bony Birds with a Productivity of 56,320 M₢): population 8x as big but GNP only 73x bigger! (2007-18)
 *[http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16834 Should Oolite have a financial system?] (2014)

@@ Line 223: / Line 223: @@
 *[http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15061 Another] Cim inspired discussion (2013): Piracy, trade, AI roles, Market prices (Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:29 pm for a bit; Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:57 pm for a bit)
 *[http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1848 The 127 Limit] (2006-9)
-*[http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17366 Commodity sub-types] (2015)
+*[http://aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17366 Commodity sub-types] (2015+): note [[User:Redspear|Redspear]]'s powerful defence of the Oolite trade model.
 *[http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21094 Strangers Roolite Essay on Economics & the Oolite trade model] (2014, posted 2021)
 *[http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=161534#p161534 Speculation] on the economics of Biodomes/Orbital stations

@@ Line 174: / Line 174: @@
 * Disembodied: "There's no sense risking damage or destruction to a very expensive ship"
 :With the current ship prices in Oolite, any pirate other than the entirely non-pragmatic would realise that the average act of piracy nets them a few hundred credits, selling a ship gets tens or often hundreds of thousands of credits, and the odds of surviving each fight are less than 99%. They therefore all sell their ships and retire in luxury.
-:(I personally just assume that the player is the subject of a giant practical joke and all the shipyard owners stick three extra zeroes onto the price tags when they see you coming): [http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=205539#p205539 Cim (2013)]
+:...I personally just assume that the player is the subject of a giant practical joke and all the shipyard owners stick three extra zeroes onto the price tags when they see you coming... [http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=205539#p205539 Cim (2013)] - and see Cim's [http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=199912#p199912 idea] for a ship-price/maintenance oxp.
-* But see Tsoj's [http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20900 post] (2021).
+* But now see Tsoj's [http://www.aegidian.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20900 recent post] (2021).
 ----

@@ Line 244: / Line 244: @@
 :*[http://www.rocketpunk-observatory.com/startrade.htm Interstellar Trade: A Primer] Costs of trade, costs of a navy. (2001)
 :*[https://fermatslibrary.com/s/the-theory-of-interstellar-trade The theory of interstellar trade] Academic economics paper (Prof Paul Krugman, 1978).
 === Reference ===

@@ Line 179: / Line 179: @@
 ----
 [[File:New Cargoes.png|thumb|right|400px|Cim's New Cargoes: Specialist Market found on the F4 menu]]
 [[File:Real Life Economics 1.png|thumb|right|400px|SW Economy (& others) introduce new commodities: Quirium fuel, medicine, fresh water, oxygen ''etc'']]
 [[File:Real Life Economics 2.png|thumb|right|400px|20 seconds later: check the new ''prices'' of luxuries, narcotics, alloys & firearms, check the ''quantity'' of food above (Real Life Economics)]]